Interview to be aired on the Whateley program on Tuesday 26th October 2022.
Gerard Whateley: For the past week, Australian sport has been intensely engaged in a conversation about the need for corporate dollars versus athletes’ right to represent, express and live their values, and when these two issues collide.
At the heart of that was Australian netball, the CEO of Netball Australia came in yesterday, it’s about $15 million in sponsorship with Hancock Prospects, and Pat Cummins was willing to come forward and say he doesn’t want to personally join Alinta , a fossil fuel company, but he is willing to wear the shirt through the sponsorship’s binding agreements with the governing body.
There’s a lot of henny penny-ing about it, and then it goes deep into the prevailing politics of the time. Extremely sensible, this is the man currently in charge of Australian sport, and uniquely qualified. He lived it as an athlete and he lives it now as an administrator, the Chief Executive of the Australian Sporting Commission is Kieren Perkins.
Kieren welcome back to the program.
Kien Perkins: Thanks Gerard
GW: From your point of view, I’m very interested, what have we learned from the netball-Hancock sponsorship debacle and cautionary tale that could be for the sport as a whole?
CP: That’s a big question. There are a lot of things. See, I think first of all we have to recognize that this was kind of interesting in the comments of the casual in-universe observers, this idea that athletes should just gratefully take the money to put their name on everything and go on and on In fact, the reason companies want to sponsor sports is to gain the reflected goodwill, leadership and respect that athletes gain through their accomplishments, to then influence the broader universe’s view of that organization and vice versa.
You know, both sides of that dialogue have to be able to come together with a good set of values, understanding and respect for what’s required and so I think you know that all sports and businesses have to look after that, that the athletes are not automatons and they don’t just serve the whims of others, they have an opinion and certainly things in society have changed a lot since my generation when we probably tended to just say thank you sir and move on .
GW: Yes
CP: So we need an open and transparent dialogue between all parties to agree before we go and commit people to putting their names on things they may have a problem with.
GW: This involves a bit of what America has dubbed the “shut up and dribble” debate. Do you think athletes have the right to stand up for what they believe in and live their values, standards and ethics?
CP: As every human being on this planet has a right to it. I think that’s the thing, you know, there seems to be this insight that’s been expressed in a lot of dialogue over the past few days, like athletes should just be grateful that they’re in the position that they’re in and lean forward and take whatever is handed them. And that’s just unacceptable. They are people who work and are dedicated to their cause, and they have the right to be heard and to have their say.
First and foremost, I think what the sport needs to continue to evolve and get better is to actually be transparent about the conversation. Because if you take netball as an example, from everything I’ve seen and know, when the parties sat down and had a conversation, they were able to find an element of common ground and understanding that may have avoided much of that drama in the first place.
GW: If there is a risk for sport, then sport is an all-encompassing word in this case, there is a risk for sport that there are certain industries that are now going to be reluctant to commit their corporate funds.
CP: You see, it’s possible, but I think one of the things you can’t change about the human condition is that we all, we all have opinions and we all have things that we stand for, don’t stand for, don’t agree. I dont agree. And you know, I’m pretty confident that eventually every organization and every group of individuals, if they’re actually able to communicate clearly what their values and beliefs are, they’ll know what the things they’re willing to do are You stand up and make your voice heard, there are many very good companies in this country that are making good money that are able to sponsor sports and finding the right partnerships is absolutely crucial.
And I’m actually not afraid that somehow this incident will lead to a huge cash outflow from the sport. I think, you know, story for different reasons, but still the same when tobacco sponsorship was banned. You know, there were death screams about sports and how it was all going to end, and it wasn’t long before other companies that now saw space for them jumped into sports they valued and groups they valued by one build partnership.
GW: That’s exactly the case that’s been on my mind for the week, Kieren. So is there a message for some companies, and there was a little bit in the statement that was released, that sport shouldn’t be a forum to debate politics and values and things like that.
Well it should be, right? Businesses should expect that there is some level of scrutiny that if they do get involved, it’s not doing the laundry, it just doesn’t completely isolate them from such debates.
CP: Gerard, what I find really ironic about this comment is that it’s a very one-sided, hypocritical view. So athletes shouldn’t have opinions, but the companies that want to take advantage of athletes’ goodwill and reputation should be allowed to do or say what they want from athletes’ success, that’s a completely hypocritical statement.
And I think at the end of the day, you know, different industries are going to find different supporters who want to join them and want to be involved with them, who do the work, and find those who don’t just have a stomach ache because, you know, someone doesn’t agree with you. And I think we just have to be a bit more reasonable and realistic in these dialogues and also accept the generation change.
Anyone who thinks that today’s younger generations, who were raised to have a social conscience, were raised to have an opinion, that they were raised to tell you what they think, will suddenly stop shut up because we don’t agree with them. I don’t get it, we raised these people, now why do we suddenly think we should choose when they have an opinion and don’t have one.
But athletes also need to understand that the decisions they make have consequences and that they must decide which partners to work with and which not to, and the financial consequences that could have as they advance in their sport. And that’s where that transparent conversation needs to come in, because I’ve seen too much dialogue from athletes and players’ unions that completely ignore the reality of the financial circumstances most sports find themselves in.
And we just have to be a little open with each other.
GW: How aware do athletes need to be that these corporate funds are absolutely critical to the operation and indeed the survival of their sport.
CP: See, it’s different in different sports, right, I’m not entirely sure I believe that, “but, you know, their survival depends on it.” I think if you look at the level of funding that governments at all levels, you know in my case through the Australian Sports Commission, put into elite sport is their ability to function and operate, you know they can do that at levels do, everyone I will tell you that there is never enough money, I agree, we need to find more sustainable and consistent sources of funding. But, you know, if you look at a sport like netball as a specific example at this point, you know the ambitions that they have and the growth that they’re looking for and the money that they’re trying to invest in is theirs Taking sport to a much higher professional level, that’s the point, you know. these challenges have come.
For any little girl in Australia who wants to play netball this weekend, nothing about the conversation that is taking place with the Diamonds will stop that and we all need to understand the role we play and the wider impact we have. but for sure without sponsorship the sport will stagnate and wither and we don’t want that at all.
GW: How considerate you are of the Australian Sports Commission and the corporate partners you are and will be taking on and where they sit in the wider community.
CP: We’re always very thoughtful, and actually, Gerard, one of the things that I found interesting about that dialogue is, you know, for me as an athlete, it’s more than 20 years, but, you know, the companies with them When I signed contracts to sponsor myself, the conversation started with an alignment of values and beliefs, and I’ve never felt like signing up with organizations I didn’t see an alignment with.
And, you know, that’s just part of the dialogue that we all need to have, and that’s, you know, that’s not the “woke” arguments out of ignorance or some of the other political taunts that the people in power that disliking the answer, urging that people, whether their business people, athletes or anyone else, have the right to make decisions about what they will support and who will support them. We all do it every day.
GW: Yes. And when we’re done with Kieren, having the number one incumbent in Australian sport who’s long been Australian Test captain Pat Cummins, how strong do you think that was?
CP: I think it’s certainly going to spark conversations, and I think for a lot of the athletes who’ve seen Pat do that, it’s probably given them a little confidence that they can have an opinion and their opinion needs to be recognized and heard, but I think, like I said, I don’t think this will lead to a major reorientation and departure from the sport at the end of the day. Every company knows that the people they employ, and through proxies there is an employment connection with those people, they don’t always agree with everything that’s being done. But if we conduct these dialogues respectfully, openly and transparently and do it right, it should make us better, not weaker.
GW: Kieren I know it’s a busy day, it’s a budget day in Canberra so good luck on behalf of the sport for what’s coming tonight.
CP: Thanks Gerard, appreciate it.
GW: Kieren Perkins, Chief Executive of the Australian Sports Commission, so a very useful contribution to a firestorm debate.
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