Dancer and choreographer Twyla Tharp is known for her talent, but also for her distinct dislike of celebrity theatre. She’s a horrible interview, and by that I mean an incredible interview, and she’s featured on an episode of “PBS Arts Talk” which is currently streaming on pbs.org and will air on WTTW later this month.
Too bad the other episodes are so conventional. Pretty. And what’s with the drab, utilitarian title?
A rotating cast of presenters takes the helm and all are artists, with the exception of journalist Ann Curry (more on that in a moment). Ballet dancer Misty Copeland is handling the Tharp episode and it’s special because it gives a hint of what a show it would have been if the parties on and off camera had been more interested (sorry that MTV stole from here). Find out what happens when people stop being polite and start being honest.
Tharp doesn’t follow the usual rules, especially when it comes to one famous person interviewing another. She is neither warm nor flattered to be here. She is open to most questions but rejects others. She has something to say and Copeland’s demeanor – kind, careful and respectful – stands in stark contrast to the choreographer’s sharp-edged impatience. Copeland is undeterred by Tharp’s personality. They have worked together before. She knows the drill.
“I had a unique upbringing,” says Tharp. “I had a mother who was adamant that there was still something I could do in this life. So I had a lot of preparation, a lot of dance lessons of all kinds, so I had a body that was hungry.” When she moved to New York to dance professionally, she quickly realized that the existing companies just weren’t for her. “If I wanted to dance, I had to do the dances because no one else could take it with me.” I laughed. Tharp has no illusions about who she is.
What inspires you, Copeland asks? It’s a banal question. And so is Tharp’s answer: love. But then she adds a detail and it gets interesting: “I have to love the dancer, then that’s fine.” With Tharp, it’s personal. She doesn’t just create, she creates for someone.
The Joffrey Ballet was the first to hire her as a choreographer. The play, which premiered in 1973, was called “Deuce Coupe” and was based on the music of the Beach Boys. It combined classical ballet with what Tharp describes as “popular ballroom dancing.” Describing her troupe as “those street rebels,” she says there was initial resistance from the Joffrey dancers, who poked fun at Tharp’s choreography not qualifying as dance. “And I said, ‘Never mind, this is jumping, so you jump higher than me.’ Now let’s go.’ And this is how you do it. They create a common denominator that everyone can approach in their own way.”
Copeland: “You really broke the divide between modern dance and ballet.”
Tharp: Well, sorry to interrupt, honey – I didn’t think it would break anything. I saw it as an addition. I looked at it as an enlargement of things and not like, “Shit, I don’t like you — you’re out!” It was like, “Oh, you’re good for that?” Let’s capitalize on that.”
The remaining episodes of the season (there are seven in total) never reach that kind of prickly energy. It’s usually an exercise in mutual flattery, which is outrageous when Emmy-winner Henry Winkler interviews late-night talk show host Jimmy Kimmel. But overall the series is completely generalized and the interviews are completely over the top in terms of focus.
Every now and then there is a touching anecdote. Elvis Costello tells musician Rhiannon Giddens: “I have a strong feeling that melodies are created in the head, especially when you’re in an environment where there’s a lot of competing information – you might be in an airport terminal, for example and it could be like this.” Music playing in a coffee shop and announcements that sound like music or noises that sound like rhythm – and I’ll try to get somewhere and mumble that thing into the phone to catch it .”
Singer-songwriter Seal guides Winkler through the origins of the song “Crazy,” which was his first hit, and he talks philosophically about how hard it was to break into the music industry: “The fact that a lot of these companies are called record companies is incidental. I realized that these are investors looking for a return. And like any other group of investors, you have to find out if there is any money to be made from this thing.”
The hosts are enthusiastic enough. But if you put yourself in the shoes of the interviewer, it becomes apparent how much of this is a skill that most people don’t possess. Just because you’re successful in your field doesn’t mean you can have an interesting conversation with someone.
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Ann Curry is a veteran journalist, yet oddly her interview with “Pachinko” author Min Jin Lee solves none of those problems. Considering the other presenters are artists who connect to their interview topic at this level, Curry is an odd choice. Too much of their “dateline” training and cadence gets in the way of a more casual, chatty interaction, and the episode feels particularly disjointed from the others. Why not bring a colleague to talk to Lee instead?
In other episodes, Copeland sits with Chicago-born painter Nathaniel Mary Quinn and Giddens interviews Broadway star Brian Stokes Mitchell.
It’s the Winkler-Kimmel episode that feels like a misstep — or rather, more like what you typically see when one celebrity interviews another. It’s a lot: “You’re awesome.” “No, you’re awesome.”
But Winkler poses an interesting question: “Some people aren’t made to go on a talk show. How’s that?” Kimmel’s response is dodgy, but perhaps also reveals why his career has endured despite all the mediocrity: “I really want the guests to leave the chair feeling like it went well.”
So, celebrity ego grooming.
This rarely leads to an interesting interview or exchange of views.
“PBS Arts Talk” – 2 stars (out of 4)
Where to watch: pbs.org/show/pbs-arts-talk and on WTTW from 18 September
Nina Metz is a Tribune critic.
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